Back to the real questions...
Art –
I have been reading the goings-on on the Chanco Once website with great interest. Obviously, I am very concerned because Boomer lost his position as the Executive Director, but also because of my history with Chanco. I am sure you are aware that I currently hold a seat on the CCAA Board, yet I am writing to you as an individual. I am not representing the CCAA with my thoughts in this letter.
I have been particularly interested in your responses to the questions posed on the website, Art. I have noticed that you respond readily to questions about Chanco’s finances, yet I really don’t think that anyone is shocked that there is a financial problem. I think that Chanco needing money was made clear last year at Fall Fest. Everyone made a big deal then about increasing enrollment at camp so it could keep its doors open. You and Boomer have been talking about the fact that it could be closed down in a few years since just after he took the job. I think the real problem for most people has been the shock of hearing that the financial situation is so dire that the Executive Director’s position had to be cut RIGHT NOW!!! It is rather hard to believe, considering the fact that you offered him the Camp Director position (at a disheartening half salary, I might add), which leaves a savings of only $30,000 a year!! I think you may be paying the new Camp Director a bit more than what you offered Boomer, which means that you are saving even less. I realize that there are benefits, like medical insurance, that I am not including here, but the savings really don’t seem like they will make or break Chanco. I guess I might understand it better if that position had been one thing cut among other things… Were there other things cut? Maybe they add up.
I have also noticed that nobody has ever responded to the questions asked about the Executive Board voting alone versus the entire Chanco Board voting to eliminate the Executive Director's position. I am pretty sure I know the reason why, but I think all the questions need to be laid out on the table here. WHY was the vote to have the Executive Director’s position eliminated taken with only four Executive Committee members present? Boomer certainly wasn’t there and there are only four others mandated in the Bylaws (unless any others are appointed by the Chanco Board to serve on the Executive Committee. I haven’t been able to find anyone who remembers anyone else being appointed to serve on the committee, Art, so why were you there?) I personally think that the entire Chanco Board should have had a vote since the entire Chanco Board voted to hire Boomer for a position that they knew existed in good faith. Because you have said that you are “standing in the sunshine,” I would like to know two important things: 1) What was the division of the votes by the Executive Committee’s four members? 2) Why couldn’t the decision to keep or eliminate the Executive Director’s position wait until the entire Chanco Board was convened on April 15 (less than a month after the Executive Committee made their decision)?
I also read with great interest how you had really already made up your mind to close camp about a year ago, when Talley came onto the Board (you might want to let her know that it has only been that long. She seems to think it has been a year and a half!). I believe you said something about Talley, and maybe Sarah Scott, bringing new energy that made you rethink that decision. WASN’T BOOMER A PART OF ALL OF THAT??? Talley herself admits that they worked together on ideas and that she was inspired by him. Why on earth can’t you give him any credit, Art? Your eloquently written letters seem to be writing him out of the past year of Chanco’s history – at least the positive history. Why? We all know that he was a part of the resurgence of energy at Chanco. If what you report is true, perhaps he was hired when you had already planned to shut down Chanco… So, was he hired under false pretenses? Do you really have the power to close Chanco’s doors without consulting the Board?? If so, what is the purpose of the Board????? In fact, although he knew there was financial trouble, Boomer heard nothing about the potential closing of Chanco until at least a month after he started working in 2007… Why was that not disclosed during the hiring process? We might not be in this mess right now if we had known all this from the beginning! We have two young children, Art. It looks like we are going to be packing boxes pretty soon and looking for another place to live…
On Chanco’s finances, it is really sad to me through all of this that you are capable of insinuating that Boomer ran the finances into the ground in 2007. By design from the very beginning, he was hardly allowed to buy anything – especially big purchases - without your approval. That camp and conference center had been neglected for 20 years, Art! You told him that he was not going to make money - or break even his first year. You told him he had to, "Spend money to make money." Now, he is being raked over the coals for his outrageous spending! I am not saying that he is perfect - nor am I, nor are you, I am sure. Again, you say you are “standing in the sunshine,” let's just be sure we are not dancing merrily along in the sunshine kicking rocks at one another. It just seems awfully convenient that you seemingly supported the repairs and improvements that needed to be done last year and at the beginning of 2008 (which was so shocking in its overspending!): repainting the Manor House because the paint was peeling off, replacing heating and cooling systems in the buildings because they were no longer working after 20 years!, hauling vehicles out of the woods and having them repaired so they were in working order, putting regular maintenance systems into place throughout the conference center. The entire camp septic system had to be pumped out last summer (which should happen regularly and had never been fully pumped)! I can’t even recall the countless other things that Boomer inherited from other people neglecting the property for countless years – and that responsibility does not fall on any one person; it falls on the Board, who has been responsible for Chanco all these years. Again, I am not claiming perfection. Yet, now, all the money that was spent in 2007 to repair and improve the property is being twisted to sound like we had some big spender in there who threw money around irresponsibly! I am shocked!! Before you jump on that one, Art, I realize you never say that directly, but you most certainly insinuate it.
Everything just seems to be “spun” so magnificently, so... well, so "Art"-fully! Perhaps the Board should take a look at their part in Chanco's financial problems, and by that I am not indicting any of the newly appointed Board members. They are certainly not to blame. In fact, as the Chairman of the Finance Committee and the Treasurer of the Diocese, it seems to me, that you should be taking a lot more responsibility for the budgetary problems in 2007 than you are. After all the problems with money prior to Boomer's arrival, would you or the Board really give Boomer carte blanche with the check book? Really?? Are we supposed to believe this is all the crazy misdirection and overspending of the executive director... again?? We've been told that about too many directors before for it even to begin to sound reasonable. When Boomer took the Executive Director position, he made it very clear that his skill sets were not as refined in finances, most specifically in working with a budget as large as Chanco’s. The Board voiced concerns about this, as well, last fall. Starting in October, it was my understanding that you were supposed to meet with Boomer on Fridays in order to mentor him on the budget. You never made a Friday meeting.
Okay, let’s flash forward to March of this year. You, as the Treasurer of the Diocese, realized there was a crisis. Why didn’t the Chanco Board go to their Executive Director to ask him to help find a solution? Where was the teamwork? Why did the four other executive committee members (and you, Art) meet behind closed doors to vote his position out without even talking to him until the next day? Sure, you offered him the Camp Director position – but is it realistic to consider taking a “reduction in salary” that essentially tore his salary IN HALF??? With a family of four? And then, Art, just to make the offer less appealing, he was told that his family was not invited to join him at camp this summer. Please… How was that even a reasonable offer?? In the one brief panicked conversation you had with him prior to that meeting you mentioned combining the Youth Missioner position (in which we have in Interim right now) with the Camp Director position as a possible alternative… Now, THAT might have been an option. Talley mentioned in some blog or another that the current model, with a year-round Camp Director, is reminiscent of Dave Davenport’s years… Well, actually, combining the Camp Director and Youth Missioner’s jobs would have been the direct model of Dave Davenport’s years (and might have paid enough to keep Boomer employed there, as long as his family could have been included). Dave was both the Camp Director and the equivalent of the Youth Missioner back then. Hmmmmmm. I wonder why that wasn’t considered in the meeting. Maybe a few more people in the meeting might have come up with it as an option. Maybe the entire Board…
Finally, I would like to offer my opinion to you and, perhaps, to others on the website, as to why so many people seem to be pulling away in the wake of Boomer’s removal. I do not think it is out of undying loyalty to Boomer. I don’t think that people would (or should) arrive at the next Chanco Board meeting with torches and pitchforks, demanding that he be reinstated. I think there is a shock running through all of us that such a small group of people (and I am anxiously awaiting the true number here!) made the decision to change the fundamental structure of something we all believed in without giving it a chance to get back on its feet. There is no clear plan to fill in the void from what was taken away. I know you think you have one, but it isn’t inspiring, Art. Even when you try to tear Boomer down with insinuations, it isn’t enough.
The reality is, people are pulling away because of your decision. My daughter doesn’t want to come back to camp in light of what is happening to our family. She doesn’t feel welcome at Chanco anymore. She had 5 or 6 friends from school signed up to come to camp this summer. Now I have to let their parents know what has happened… So far, I haven’t had the heart to make the call. Other people are pulling their support and not posting that decision on Chanco Once so it can be argued with (attacked?). It has happened. It is sad. People have left the Chanco Board because such a monumental decision was made without them. I am not saying that this should continue. I am not undermining Chanco in any way. It is too much a part of who I am. There are choices and consequences in life, Art. And these are the consequences of your decisions – right before camp – and right before a capital campaign. But if the Executive Director has to go in order to save $30,000, how can you make people believe enough to give their money toward that campaign now? I don’t know why you have the power to control decisions like these, but WHY NOW?? It just wasn’t smart. We were all gathered together, planning to help camp – to raise money for a $5 million Capital Campaign… I wanted to believe… I did believe… I think we all did.
I have been wrestling with the decision to write or not to write this letter for a while now. I have written and re-written letters in my head a million times. I don’t want to sound like the disgruntled wife of the ex-Executive Director. However, my passion for Chanco has compelled me to write. In the spirit of all that we do in the name of God, the church, Chanco, and children, what has happened is not right. The manner in which it has happened is not right. Talley mentioned not understanding God’s plan in all of this… I don’t think it is God’s plan that we have to wonder about. I think it is your plan that should be in question.
Sincerely –
Helen Somers Camp Chanco/EYC 1983-2007
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And here are the real answers
Dear Helen: I question whether it is appropriate to air your feelings on the Chanco website, but since you did, and since you asked me to respond, I will.
I agree with you that Chanco’s financial situation should not have been a surprise to anyone. The reason that I provided Chanco’s financial data is simply because so many Camp alumni indicated a “shock” that Chanco had a financial crisis. The numbers aren’t made up, they are very real. The “new” factor is that the Diocese simply does not have the reserves to bail Chanco out this year or in future years.
The savings from eliminating the Executive Director’s position is roughly $50,000 per calendar year. Maybe that is not a lot to you, but it sure seems like a lot to me! Obviously, the savings this year is less since we have already paid Robert a quarter of his salary and if we agree to his request for 16 additional weeks (four months) pay, we will end up paying over six months of his salary. Some savings will materialize this year.
The decision to act was made because camp would be starting in 3 months and if we waited until April 15, camp would be starting in 2 months. The Executive Committee, which acts as the Board when the Board is not in session, decided that it would be best for Chanco to act now rather than to act after camp, so that we would have a camp director on staff now and have him recruit his Program staff and counselors.
The Executive Committee met in Executive session, which is always the case when the discussion is about an individual. Even if Robert had been present, he could not have voted. There would have been a conflict of interest and he would have had to excuse himself. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the decision, the Executive Committee has the authority and exercised that authority. There were no “no” votes.
It seems strange to me that my being or not being a Board member or a member of the Executive Committee would affect the decision. However, I will respond to those questions. I was appointed to the Board in October 2005 and my term would have expired in October 2008; however, at its November 27, 2007 meeting, Jim Smith moved that the By Laws be amended to provide a correction to the number of Board members and to have the diocesan Treasurer a member at-large, with voice, seat and vote. Further, at its June 27, 2007 meeting, the Board approved the Executive Committee meeting in the months that the Board does not meet: “Jim Smith noted that the Executive Committee would be comprised of the President, Vice President, Treasurer and Secretary and any other Director the Committee wants to appoint. On motion duly made, seconded, and amended, the Executive Committee was ordered with unanimous Board vote.” Judge Bradberry, who chairs the Executive Committee, asked (“appointed”) me to serve on the Executive Committee. The reasons are obvious: I maintain the books so any discussion on finances requires my presence and I am the diocesan interface with Chanco.
Chanco will close if it does not live within its budget. The reason is simple – the Diocese no longer has the funds to pay for Chanco’s deficits. If expenses exceed revenues, money has to come from somewhere to pay these expenses, or the electricity gets turned off, employees quit because there is no money to pay their salaries, etc. Helen, this really isn’t that hard to understand. The diocesan Treasurer “can close Chanco” by simply not advancing funds to Chanco. And if the diocesan Treasurer does not have the funds to advance, funds cannot be advanced.
The Executive Director is responsible for Chanco’s finances, which includes staying within the Board-approved budget. That is one of the primary tasks he has. The Executive Director approves work or services and submits the invoices for payment. Generally, I do not see the invoices until the Executive Director has signed the payment authorization form.
I am not aware that I am insinuating that all of Chanco’s financial problems were caused by the Executive Director – some were, some weren’t. The conclusion was reached that Chanco does not need an Executive Director, but needs a Camp Director to focus 100% on the camp, promoting it, planning programs and running the camp. This should enrich the camp, by providing a better camp program.
Whether the capital campaign goes forward remains unknown – we have not heard from our consulting firm and won’t for several more weeks. I do know this, if Chanco cannot bring its spending under control, Chanco will not need a capital campaign. The capital campaign is to provide funds for replacing building and making other improvements, not to meet operating deficits.
I do not recall scheduling meetings on every Friday. However, I do recall offering to meet with the Executive Director after the diocesan staff meetings on Thursday morning. The Bishop had asked the Chanco Executive Director to attend those staff meetings. I suppose that I could check and let you know how many diocesan staff meetings Robert attended during 2007. I think that it is safe to assume that Robert and I met after every staff meeting he attended.
There seems to be a misunderstanding on the Retreat House. The Retreat House is where the caretaker lives – or is suppose to live. Bill Taylor lived there on the weekends that he lived at Chanco, as well as during the camp sessions. Bill was a part-time caretaker because Chanco did not have anyone else to be the caretaker. The house is not meant to be an executive perk. Chanco simply does not have sufficient housing to allow for such. The Tanseys are the caretakers. If they had not been employed, the Executive Director would have to be there on the wekends or find someone who would be willing to be there. In either event, adequate housing had to be provided them. To keep the Retreat House empty so that the Executive Director could have family housing in the summer while the Tanseys lived in staff housing is ridiculous.
Helen, I think enough has been said. You needed to vent and you have done so. Neither of us are particularly happy with the results. Every Board member hoped for Robert’s success. I wish you and Robert and your children the best for the future.
Sincerely, Art
The Artful Dodger
To begin, Art, I would like to thank you for your hasty response to my letter. I appreciate your concern about whether or not I should be airing my "feelings on the Chanco website," but I felt particularly welcome to pose questions, since you opened the floor for questions and I have quite a few of them. You make a good point: I would certainly never "air my feelings" on the OFFICIAL Chanco website. Just to let you know, www.chancoonce.com is not Chanco's website. You can find two official Chanco websites, designed by Greg Willis and Boomer, by visiting www.campchanco.org for the camp or www.chancoonthejames.org for the conference center. I appropriately chose to post my comments and questions on the Chanco Once website, which was designed and developed (and owned!) independently by Greg for the Chanco Alumni. This is just the place for thoughts, opinions, reflections, and, yes, even airing my feelings, if that is what I had decided to do. In any event, I am just pleased to see that you responded so quickly to some of my questions.
In reading your response, I noted that there are a number of things to which you responded with varying levels of clarity, and a number of topics you avoided altogether. Perhaps I posed too many questions in my last email to have hoped to have had all of my questions answered clearly… Whatever the problem may have been, I will focus on two main points in this letter: 1) your participation on the Executive Committee and 2) the division of votes by the Executive Committee.
As to your participation on the Executive Committee, I am still puzzled. Let me be very clear that I never questioned your position on the larger Chanco Board of Directors. My question concerned your participation on the Executive Committee, and it still does. According to Article V, Section I of the Bylaws of Chanco on the James, Inc., "The Board of Directors, by resolution duly adopted in accordance with these Bylaws, may create an Executive Committee which includes 1) the President (currently, Sarah Scott Thomas), 2) the Vice President (currently, Judge Jim Bradberry), 3) the Executive Director (formerly, Robert/Boomer Somers, 4) the Secretary (currently, Talley Banazek) and 5) the Treasurer of the Corporation (currently, Jim Camp) and such additional Directors as may be designated by the Board from time to time." For clarification, I would like to point out that Jim Camp is the "Treasurer of the Corporation," and it is he who holds a seat on the Executive Committee, which can be confusing since you are the "Treasurer of the Diocese." Your job as Treasurer of the Diocese does not grant you a place on the committee (not that you claim that it does, I am just clarifying here). For additional clarification, the seat, voice, and vote you mention in your letter refers only to your role on the larger Chanco Board, NOT to the Executive Committee. The Bylaws do NOT state, as you claim, that additional Directors may be "any other Director the Committee wants to appoint." In your response, you state that Judge Bradberry, the Chair of the Executive Committee, asked you, or "appointed" you, to serve on the Executive Committee as an additional director, yet he is only one person, Art. One person does not qualify as "the Board," which is required in the Bylaws to appoint an additional Director to the Executive Committee! One person does not even qualify as "the Committee" to which you refer in your erroneous interpretation of the Bylaws. To use your own quote from your letter to me, Art, "this really isn’t that hard to understand." As it turns out, you had absolutely no authority to be in that meeting because you have no seat on the Executive Committee, and you certainly had no right to vote during that session! I assume you knew that, but I thought perhaps everyone on the Board, and especially on the Executive Committee, should know the truth about your presence at their meetings.
As for the vote itself, you did not answer the question I posed in my initial letter to you! I asked you for the division of the votes by the Executive Committee's four members. You responded by saying that "there were no 'no' votes." How clever! You "Art"-fully dodged the question by giving what amounts to a non-answer! I am still fairly well-versed in parliamentary procedure from my days as the Diocesan President of the EYC, however, and fortunately my memory is still working relatively well. Board members have the option to vote "no", "yes", or they may choose to "abstain," or refrain from voting altogether. I will ask again because I want to know even more now that your answer was so intriguingly vague! Clearly, there were not 4 "yeses," or you would have said so… So, very simply, what was the division of the votes by the Executive Committee's four members (in terms of yes/no/abstaining)?
Finally, thank you for the advice you offered in closing your last letter to me, but I can certainly decide for myself when I have said enough. I have a lot of questions and you have positioned yourself as the man with the answers. Let's remember that you opened this line of communication when you joined the Chanco Once website and posted a blog entry inviting people to contact you. I very much appreciate your willingness to communicate with me and with the rest of the alumni. There is a wealth of potential support on this website, which is certainly why you are here in the first place.
I look forward to your reply.
Sincerely,
Helen Somers
Art's forthright response
Helen,
I hope that this exchange, on the Chanco Once website, resolves the lingering questions you, and others, may have. For the record, I was not the only person speaking at the Executive Committee meeting.
You asked me to respond to two questions: one relates to my presence at the Executive Committee meeting and the other relates to the vote regarding the elimination of the Executive Director.
With respect to my presence at the Executive Committee, there are two questions: one is whether I am a member of the Executive Committee, with voice, seat and vote, and the other is whether I had the right to be present (seat) and have voice. I’ll answer the second part of the question first. Unless a motion is made, and passed, to go into Executive Session, every meeting is open, and even then the chair may grant non-members the right to remain in the meeting. The chair may grant seat and voice to anyone. The Executive Committee chair and the President both requested that I attend the meeting. This should be sufficient to answer your question, but I will now respond to the first part of the question. Jim Smith’s motion, as recorded in the Board Minutes authorized or delegated to the Executive Committee chair the right to appoint other Board members to the Executive Committee and this motion was passed by the Board. In either case, I had the right to be present and to speak.
With respect to the second question: “the vote regarding the elimination of the Executive Director.” The draft minutes of the Executive Committee reads
“The Executive Committee came out of Executive session at 8 pm. The Executive Committee ratified the decision to eliminate the position of the Executive Director and to instead employ a year-round full-time Camp Director at a salary of roughly half of the Executive Director salary.”
This means that the decision was made by the members of the Executive Committee by general consent, something that Robert’s Rules of Order Revised permit. It is the equivalent of a no “no” votes. To avoid you having to ask “what was the vote in executive session,” the answer is that you cannot have a vote in executive session, only in open session.
I hope that I have answered your questions.
I would like to add a comment. I do not have to answer any of these questions or clarify misunderstandings. I am doing so strictly to clarify questions that a few alumni have. I think that it is rude and uncivil for you to degrade me by your terminology. I recognize that you do not know all of the facts and I recognize that you are defending your husband, but you can still conduct yourself with dignity and treat others with respect.
Sincerely,
Art
a respectful reply
Please know that I am not writing in order to solicit a response from you with this letter. I can certainly recognize that you and I have gotten off on the wrong foot if you have determined that I am either rude, uncivil, or degrading. In retrospect, you are probably at a great disadvantage because you have not had the opportunity to know my charm and wit, which tend to offset my sometimes disarming candor and honesty…
Considering the circumstances, you probably never will.
While I proudly defend my husband, he is not my only motivation for what I have posted here since Saturday. I have actually put a lot of thought into all of this as a way to give back to that glorious place on the James that I hold so dear to my heart. This isn’t any fun for me either, but I hope it will be part of the foundation of tomorrow upon which the diocese and alumni can rebuild the Chanco we know and love. It is certainly worth the struggle to me! Perhaps we can agree in time that Chanco is worth getting through these difficult questions and answers.
Sincerely –
Helen Somers
Further up and further in...
Even I hope this is my last epic blog entry on this subject (communal sigh of relief!). Allow me to FINALLY get to my point …
My questions about the Executive Committee and Art’s voting/non-voting presence on it speak to the fact that the Bylaws of Chanco on the James, Inc. state that “a majority of the Executive Committee shall constitute a quorum and so long as a quorum is present at any meeting of the Executive Committee, a majority vote of those members present at any meeting shall determine all questions.” I recognize that Art had seat and voice at the most recent Executive Committee meeting if both Sarah Scott Thomas and Judge Bradberry requested his presence. He made it very clear that he had seat and voice only, without a vote, and I am grateful for that clarification.
Now for the part of Chanco that gets interesting: the grapevine. I have heard through Chanco’s grapevine that the vote taken in the Executive Session, was just two ‘yes’ votes strong, with two Executive Committee members abstaining from the vote. According to Robert’s rules, when a member abstains from voting, it is as if that member is not present at all in determining a quorum. While four Executive Committee members (a majority of the existing Executive Board members) were technically present during the discussion of the closed session, when the 2 members abstained from voting, the quorum was lost. “Secret” or not, executive or not, the vote MUST have a quorum to be legitimate! The resulting decision to eliminate the Executive Director’s position should never have been made! It was illegal and should, by all rights, be declared null and void.
Now, I should be quick to add: Boomer does NOT want his job back. That is not my point… He is being a good sport about all of this and is working with the President so everyone can part on good terms.
****My point in bringing all of this to light is to let the alumni and community know about the structural problems and misuse of power that seem to be reflected by the Chanco Board of today. This is just one example, but it is just the tip of the iceberg. It is NOT every member of the Board, and certainly not the new members, but it is real and it runs deep. I want the very new Board to be prepared at their upcoming Board meeting and in the years to come to be watchful and mindful of their responsibilities as the stewards of Chanco. All of the wise, “old guard” Board members, like Stan Sawyer, Dave Davenport, Peter Hogg, etc., the notorious watchdogs on the Board, have recently rotated off, so the Board is realtively inexperienced and impressionable... They need to know what they are walking into.
****My number one priority here is to help and support Chanco, yet I struggle with the best way to do that if Chanco continues to be managed in the current manner by the Board. In order to truly help Chanco, we must first insist that parts of its infrastructure are fundamentally changed so it can begin to heal from the inside out.
I say, let’s move forward carefully, and respectfully ask this mostly new Chanco Board to come up with a clear set of definitive and achievable goals and directions under the new management structure. In addition, I would like to know the recommendations from the Strategy and Planning Committee. Does the Finance Committee have a 5 year business plan? How will they run the conference center without leadership? Until then, I pledge my undying love and my hearty support to the people, like Jim Sitzler and John Berquist, who have committed themselves to making Chanco work on a daily basis. Personally, I cannot in good conscience support Chanco financially until I see the new plan. (I am not telling anyone to pull their kids from camp here, folks! Keep ‘em enrolled and hope for the best by summer! If my daughter still wanted to go, that’s what I would do…)
I look forward to building a new Chanco with people who are brave enough to ask the difficult questions and challenge the status quo. I believe the healthy future of our beloved Chanco is worth it… Don’t you?
Thank you
Helen,
Thank you for your latest response and for not asking me to respond. That’s a tremendous relief – a tad bit of humor. I believe we both want a strong and vibrant Chanco. I am spending a great deal of time working towards that goal.
I want to correct your statement, for the record. I did not say that I did not have a vote. I stated that as far as I knew, I am a member of the Executive Committee. Certainly, the other members think I am. To appease you, I will refer this to Judge Bradberry, who chairs the Executive Committee.
Not wanting to debate with an ex-EYC parliamentarian, but I have to disagree with your conclusion that the action of the Executive Committee is “illegal” or “null and void”. The action clearly is not “illegal” – no laws were broken.
When the meeting was called to order, there was a quorum. When the vote was taken ratifying the decision made in executive session, the chair noted “the ‘ayes’ have it”. Unless a member challenges the vote at that meeting, that ruling is valid and cannot be appealed. The chair did not, and is not required to, ask if anyone abstains. If a voting member wanted to object, that member could have asked for a roll call vote. No one objected to the vote or to the chair announcing that the action was ratified. As a result, the decision is valid. Just so that you know, I reviewed this with the Parliamentarian of the House of Bishops (our own interim Bishop), and this is how he would rule.
If you review this website, the alumni were asked to vote “yes” or “no” and were not given the opportunity to abstain as to the approval of CCAA’s Articles or By Laws. I do not recall ever being in a meeting where a vote is called and the chair asked if anyone wishes to abstain.
I think that it is best if we simply agree to disagree and as the Council guest speaker said “let it go!”
Respectfully,
Art
Thank you, too
Art –
With all due respect to Judge Bradberry, it is not necessary to find out whether or not he thinks you should have been able to vote during the Executive Session, because he doesn’t have the authority to make that determination. (and earlier you said that you didn’t vote during Executive Session…) When the BYLAWS do not give you the right to vote, you can’t – even if Judge Bradberry says you can.
On the question of the quorum… I am not sure why you think a decision made based on the votes of just two members of the Executive Board couldn’t be challenged now, when the two abstaining Board Members didn’t even know they had a reason to object at the time. I would imagine that those two abstaining members didn’t object because there appeared to be a quorum when your unqualified vote was thrown in!! I don’t mean to be disrespectful in any way, but perhaps they think you have a vote for the same reason that they think you are a member of the Executive Committee: because you have a remarkable air of authority and because you say so. I am afraid that those qualifications do not make your vote legal within the Bylaws… So, the quorum was still lost during the Executive Session when two qualified members abstained from voting – because the two remaining voting members did not reflect a majority of the Executive Committee. All opinions aside, we cannot argue with the Bylaws.
Rulings by Boards certainly can and have been challenged after the fact. It is not necessarily the Bishop (who has only heard your side of all of this, you have to admit) that would need to make the decision in this case. The decision could be taken to U.S. Courts to be decided before a judge since Bylaws are legal documents. Before this gets all puffed up and out of hand, however, I think the bottom line is this: Boomer does NOT want his job back! No one is suing anyone. I am just pointing out a problem.
I couldn’t agree more with you and the Council guest speaker: I say we should just “let it go!” It is so nice to be able to wrap this up by agreeing that Chanco is our priority!
Most sincerely,
Helen Somers
Letting it go!
Helen,
With all due respect, you continue to ignore the facts. The draft Minutes of the Executive Committee are being circulated to the Executive Committee members. If any member disagrees with anything recorded, he/ she will have the opportunity to so state. In those draft Minutes, I am recorded as a Member. Judge Bradberry will have to decide whether this is correct. He may decide to refer to the Board, so that the Board can clarify the earlier motion passed by the Board. That is his decision, not mine.
Further, while one or more members might have abstained if asked, they did NOT abstain. We will never know if they would have abstained if the issue that you noted was presented. In other words, if two or more members had abstained, the position would not have been eliminated. One or both may have reconsidered. Again, we will never know the answer to this because no one abstained. You keep saying the “abstaining members,” but, Helen, there weren’t any members who abstained. [I know you want, maybe need, to believe that there were abstaining votes, but there weren’t any.]
In my April 6 response to you, I stated:
“The Executive Committee met in Executive session, which is always the case when the discussion is about an individual. Even if Robert had been present, he could not have voted. There would have been a conflict of interest and he would have had to excuse himself. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with the decision, the Executive Committee has the authority and exercised that authority. There were no “no” votes.” And“Further, at its June 27, 2007 meeting, the Board approved the Executive Committee meeting in the months that the Board does not meet: “Jim Smith noted that the Executive Committee would be comprised of the President, Vice President, Treasurer and Secretary and any other Director the Committee wants to appoint. On motion duly made, seconded, and amended, the Executive Committee was ordered with unanimous Board vote.” Judge Bradberry, who chairs the Executive Committee, asked (“appointed”) me to serve on the Executive Committee. The reasons are obvious: I maintain the books so any discussion on finances requires my presence and I am the diocesan interface with Chanco.” By its actions, the Board delegated to the Executive Committee the right to appoint other Board members to the Executive Committee.
In my April 7 reponse to you, I stated:“With respect to my presence at the Executive Committee, there are two questions: one is whether I am a member of the Executive Committee, with voice, seat and vote, and the other is whether I had the right to be present (seat) and have voice. I’ll answer the second part of the question first. Unless a motion is made, and passed, to go into Executive Session, every meeting is open, and even then the chair may grant non-members the right to remain in the meeting. The chair may grant seat and voice to anyone. The Executive Committee chair and the President both requested that I attend the meeting. This should be sufficient to answer your question, but I will now respond to the first part of the question. Jim Smith’s motion, as recorded in the Board Minutes authorized or delegated to the Executive Committee chair the right to appoint other Board members to the Executive Committee and this motion was passed by the Board. In either case, I had the right to be present and to speak. “With respect to the second question: “the vote regarding the elimination of the Executive Director.” The draft minutes of the Executive Committee reads “The Executive Committee came out of Executive session at 8 pm. The Executive Committee ratified the decision to eliminate the position of the Executive Director and to instead employ a year-round full-time Camp Director at a salary of roughly half of the Executive Director salary.” “This means that the decision was made by the members of the Executive Committee by general consent, something that Robert’s Rules of Order Revised permit. It is the equivalent of a no “no” votes. To avoid you having to ask “what was the vote in executive session,” the answer is that you cannot have a vote in executive session, only in open session.”
In my April 8 response to you, I stated:“When the meeting was called to order, there was a quorum. When the vote was taken ratifying the decision made in executive session, the chair noted “the ‘ayes’ have it”. Unless a member challenges the vote at that meeting, that ruling is valid and cannot be appealed. The chair did not, and is not required to, ask if anyone abstains. If a voting member wanted to object, that member could have asked for a roll call vote. No one objected to the vote or to the chair announcing that the action was ratified. As a result, the decision is valid. Just so that you know, I reviewed this with the Parliamentarian of the House of Bishops (our own interim Bishop), and this is how he would rule.” You said, in your latest response, “earlier you said that you didn’t vote during Executive Session.”
I cannot locate anything in these responses that indicate that I did or did not vote. I did say that with respect to the executive session: “To avoid you having to ask ‘what was the vote in executive session,’ the answer is that you cannot have a vote in executive session, only in open session.”
So, finally, we agree on three things: (1) no one voted in executive session, (2) we are both interested in Chanco’s future, and (3) we are going to “let it go.” Respectfully, Art
The Answer is Blowing in the Wind
Art –
It gave me pause to read that you pretend to know what I “want” or “need” to believe… I certainly do not “want” or “need” to believe anything but the truth. I am sure it must be frustrating that I am reporting facts that made it to me through the Chanco grapevine. Those of us who truly know and love Chanco have been fortunate enough to have touched the hand of God. We know the truth when we see it – and I don’t see it in your words, even when you feel that you have to say them twice.
I wish you well, Art, I truly do; but, I ask that you carefully consider the way that you handle a place that is held dear by all the alumni on this site and the many others who have not found their way here. You expect us to contribute money, a lot of money, yet I am searching for the spirit in what you say. You see, I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that I need to trust you and the way you say that things need to be run. Please hear me very clearly when I say that I am defending Chanco – and I will never, ever stop.
People can read what is written here for themselves, and I hope they will continue to reach out to discover the truth about this and many other issues. I pray for Chanco and for unity where there is now discord. I know that God will lead us out of this very fine mess that we have made for ourselves. I only hope that we have the sense to follow his path.
Thank you for your time. In spite of unresolved issues and unanswered questions, I really don’t think we need to do this anymore.
Most sincerely –
Helen Somers
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